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Re: Polir une boules de pétanque manuellement avec un disque céramique
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21/08/2015 10:54
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Je pense qu'il serait profitable que BTy nous éclaire sur ce sujet.

Contribution du : 15/07/2021 9:00
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Re: Les boules qui rebondissent sur les "arrêts" (planches) en terrains non limités sont elles bonnes ?
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21/08/2015 10:54
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Merci infiniment Bty d'avoir clarifié ce point de règlement.

J'avais passé, je ne sais combien de nuits, à tourner les choses dans tous les sens, en essayant de trouver une solution ce ce problème qui empoisonne la vie des pétanqueurs et du corps arbitral, sans parler des spectateurs néophytes qui en perdent leur latin.

Bisou !

Contribution du : 09/07/2021 8:58
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Re: Les boules qui rebondissent sur les "arrêts" (planches) en terrains non limités sont elles bonnes ?
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21/08/2015 10:54
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Sont ce des planches de bois issues d'une filière à priorité "développement durable" ?

Le bois présente également l’avantage d’être recyclable, soit pour la construction, soit pour le chauffage, « en faisant en sorte que ces transformations soient effectuées sans trop d’émissions de carbone », nuance ­Hélène Genin.

Mais tout n’est pas parfait au pays des maisons en bois. Beaucoup des ressources employées pour la construction sont importées de Scandinavie, d’Autriche ou ­d’Allemagne. « Le bilan carbone de leur transport, qui se fait par bateau, est ridicule au mètre cube », estime toutefois Patrick Molinié, responsable du développement de la construction à l’institut technologique FCBA. La forêt française, qui a vu sa surface doubler depuis le milieu du XIXe, est constituée aux trois quarts de feuillus (chêne, hêtre, châtaignier, peuplier…). Or, les résineux (épicéa, mélèze, ­Douglas), dont la pousse est droite et homogène, sont les plus recherchés. La filière commence à s’organiser, utilisant par exemple du hêtre pour concevoir du CLT, mais les réserves de résineux risquent d’être épuisées d’ici à 2030.
Le bilan énergétique et l’économie de matériaux ne sont pas les seuls facteurs à considérer. Lors de la fabrication de lamellé-collé et de CLT, des colles sont utilisées. Sont-elles toxiques ? « Il y a vingt ans, les adhésifs n’étaient pas terribles du point de vue environnemental, reconnaît Patrick Molinié. Mais depuis le règlement Reach (2006), ce n’est plus le cas. La mélamine urée-formol a un taux d’émission de formaldéhyde dix fois inférieur aux normes. Et la colle en polyuréthane n’en émet pas. La façon d’encoller est également plus précise et donc moins polluante.

Et pour les cordes, je te suggère le chanvre. Mais seulement à usage de cordes!
Je pense que leur qualité "à fumer" n'est pas à la hauteur de ce que tu utilises quotidiennement.

Bisou

Contribution du : 11/06/2021 8:28
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Re: Problèmes posés par l'application des règles 2021 aux terrains physiquement bordés
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21/08/2015 10:54
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Vous avez bien raison @hiruma.
BTy a fait montre d'un certain humour au second degré et c'est tout à son honneur. Je blaguais bien sûr car ses propos, bien qu'un peu longs,et non sans rappeler un certain Janik, sont parfaitement bien argumentés.
Mais visiblement, de nos jours, et vous en êtes la parfaite démonstration, l'humour survit encore mais son niveau baisse dangereusement. Par contre le second degré perd peu à peu de ses adeptes, et c'est bien dommage.
Bon, je reconnais que c'est parfois un peu compliqué t tout le monde n'est pas forcément équipé pour cela.
Je vous pardonne par conséquent.

Contribution du : 04/06/2021 10:11
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Re: Problèmes posés par l'application des règles 2021 aux terrains physiquement bordés
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21/08/2015 10:54
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@BTy
Je vous remercie infiniment pour votre gentille proposition. J'ai en effet bien besoin que vous m'aidiez à affiner le traducteur Google, qui, par moment, se montre assez approximatif.
je vous joins ci dessous le code source afin que vous puissiez y jeter un œil.
A mon avis, le dysfonctionnement peut venir d'une ligne se situant entre la 67ème et la 104ème ligne.
Au vu de la longueur de vos précédents écrits, je suis convaincu que vous aurez le temps de satisfaire à cet impératif de correction de ce traducteur grand public.
Je vous en remercie par avance.
________
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mouseenter:MJEKMe; mouseleave:iFHZnf;" maxlength="2048" name="q" type="text" aria-autocomplete="both" aria-haspopup="false" autocapitalize="off" autocomplete="off" autocorrect="off" role="combobox" spellcheck="false" value="traducteur google" aria-label="Rech." data-ved="0ahUKEwjereeNsv3wAhUL5uAKHaxUC4QQ39UDCAs"></div><div class="dRYYxd"> <div jscontroller="PymCCe" class="BKRPef M2vV3" jsname="RP0xob" aria-label="Effacer" role="button" jsaction="AVsnlb;rcuQ6b:npT2md" data-ved="0ahUKEwjereeNsv3wAhUL5uAKHaxUC4QQ05YFCAw"> <span class="ExCKkf z1asCe rzyADb" jsname="itVqKe" role="button" tabindex="0"><svg focusable="false" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewbox="0 0 24 24"><path d="M19 6.41L17.59 5 12 10.59 6.41 5 5 6.41 10.59 12 5 17.59 6.41 19 12 13.41 17.59 19 19 17.59 13.41 12z"></path></svg></span> <span class="ACRAdd"></span> </div> </div></div> <button class="Tg7LZd" jsname="Tg7LZd" aria-label="Recherche Google" type="submit" data-ved="0ahUKEwjereeNsv3wAhUL5uAKHaxUC4QQ4dUDCA0"> <div class="FAuhyb"> <span class="z1asCe MZy1Rb"><svg focusable="false" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewbox="0 0 24 24"><path d="M15.5 14h-.79l-.28-.27A6.471 6.471 0 0 0 16 9.5 6.5 6.5 0 1 0 9.5 16c1.61 0 3.09-.59 4.23-1.57l.27.28v.79l5 4.99L20.49 19l-4.99-5zm-6 0C7.01 14 5 11.99 5 9.5S7.01 5 9.5 5 14 7.01 14 9.5 11.99 14 9.5 14z"></path></svg></span> </div> </button> </div><div jscontroller="J7ZZy" class="UUbT9" style="display:none" jsname="UUbT9" jsaction="mouseout:ItzDCd;mouseleave:MWfikb;hBEIVb:nUZ9le;YMFC3:VKssTb"><div class="RjPuVb" jsname="RjPuVb"></div><div class="aajZCb" jsname="aajZCb"><div class="xtSCL"></div><ul class="erkvQe" jsname="erkvQe" role="listbox"></ul><li class="ynRric V88cHc" id="ynRric" role="presentation"></li><li data-view-type="1" class="sbct" id="YMXe" role="presentation"><div class="eIPGRd"><div class="sbic"></div><div class="pcTkSc" role="option"><div class="wM6W7d"><span></span></div><div class="ClJ9Yb"><span></span></div></div><div class="AQZ9Vd"><div class="sbai">Supprimer</div></div></div></li><li class="IDVnvc" data-view-type="6" id="TN4rFf" role="presentation"><div class="cRV9hb"><div class="aVbWac"><div class="sbic"></div></div><div class="pcTkSc" role="option"><div class="wM6W7d"><span></span></div><div class="ClJ9Yb"><span></span></div></div></div></li><a class="lh87ke" href="https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/106230?hl=fr" jsname="lh87ke">En savoir plus</a></div><div jsname="JUypV" jscontroller="N9swdb" class="JUypV" data-async-context="async_id:duf3-46;authority:0;card_id:;entry_point:0;feature_id:;ftoe:0;header:0;is_jobs_spam_form:0;open:0;preselect_answer_index:-1;suggestions:;suggestions_subtypes:;suggestions_types:;surface:0;title:;type:46"><div jscontroller="xz7cCd" style="display:none" jsaction="rcuQ6b:npT2md"></div><div id="duf3-46" data-jiis="up" data-async-type="duffy3" data-async-context-required="type,open,feature_id,async_id,entry_point,authority,card_id,ftoe,title,header,suggestions,surface,suggestions_types,suggestions_subtypes,preselect_answer_index,is_jobs_spam_form" class="yp" data-ved="0ahUKEwjereeNsv3wAhUL5uAKHaxUC4QQ-0EIDg"></div><a class="oBa0Fe wrSo4 aciXEb" href="#" id="sbfblt" data-async-trigger="duf3-46" role="button" jsaction="trigger.szjOR" data-ved="0ahUKEwjereeNsv3wAhUL5uAKHaxUC4QQtw8IDw">Signaler des prédictions inappropriées</a></div></div></div> <div style="background:url(/images/searchbox/desktop_searchbox_sprites318_hr.webp)"> </div> </div> <div id="tophf"><input name="client" value="firefox-b-d" type="hidden"><input name="sxsrf" value="ALeKk03UZKH_LgpUtlH9xJGEXUJTxbIEOQ:1622789534120" type="hidden"><input value="ns25YN7mBovMgwesqa2gCA" name="ei" type="hidden"><input value="AINFCbYAAAAAYLnbrvdSmaqNU6rBeqrWapFcnouB2Oxs" disabled="true" name="iflsig" type="hidden"></div></form></div><div class="DH7hPe"></div><div id="gac_scont"></div><span class="kpshf line gsr bilit big mdm" style="display:none"></span><div class="main" id="main"><div id="cnt"><script nonce="4ITc8CfGH5MqatRBvKWXiA==">(function(){var j=1280;
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Contribution du : 04/06/2021 8:58
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Re: Problèmes posés par l'application des règles 2021 aux terrains physiquement bordés
Boulistenaute en progrès
Inscrit:
21/08/2015 10:54
Post(s): 458
Vu la complexité de la problématique posée par BTy, je pense, et vous en conviendrez qu'il faut élargir la base de reflexion en invitant nos "collègues tanqueurs" anglophones, à participer au débat, ou tout au moins à se tenir informés de ce qui se passe dans la grande usine à gaz tête de BTy.

Je me suis donc permis d'effectuer la traduction in english (avec google traductor !) et peut être que notre grand Marco Foyot pourrait demander à ses amis américains ce qu'ils en pensent (de la qualité de ce que fume Bty, of course):

NOTE; Si vous pensez qu'il peut être utile de reproduire le texte de BTy en espagnol, mandarin ... let me know please

Good evening,

Before closing this topic, while noting that I do not have a practical answer to the problem I posed and that, therefore, I am at the status quo, I make my last answers to yves1326 and birjalu and I summarize in fine for all, all complemented by proposals for additions to the official rules.

I remind you that my problem is not what should be done by "common sense", but how to ensure that even by applying the official rules one is not obliged to count as good balls having bounced on the balls. physical boundaries of the field (walls, planks etc ...) when playing on open ground.

I think I show that it is not that simple and does not just make good sense.

However, I would like to point out that "my band of friends" is an official club of more than 150 members which has existed for 70 years.

to Yves (best regards, we have the same opinion, but not the same problems)

you remind me :

<I tell you again that common sense in your case is to consider planks as "forbidden land" so when it hits it's dead.>

We agree, indeed, this is what I propose as article 1 of my additional rules proposed to my club, included my first message (I explain why just below).

There are two issues with this:

1- the Official Rules do not define what is a prohibited ground (multiple articles which speak about it, but without definition)
2- who will say that "boards are prohibited ground"?
Therefore like YZONCA, YAVAICA and YZONPUCA are a triplet which has never solved any problem nor scored any point.

The problem does not have a "common sense" solution, even if that sounds silly enough.

To birjalu and yves1326

Unfortunately :

1- Our (raw) terrain is perfectly regulatory since we initially have 178m long x 6m wide mini to be able to trace 11 national or even international competition grounds. You cannot have it drawn twice a week, so you have to play on "open" ground (22 pitches measuring 3.5m x 15) "physically limited": a necessary concept which does not exist in the current regulations).
2- The regulations do not impose the tracing of loss lines on the ground in order to be able to play (No precision given Art. 5 when the field is not the subject of tracing of loss lines)


It is caricatural to imply that all the rules defined by the Regulation cannot be respected if some must be waived or simply that one does not have the material means to trace the land.
Obviously we must be able to play on open ground while respecting the official rules.

The regulations set minimum dimensions for the layout of competition grounds which then become regulatory (articles: 5)

Article N ° 7 defines the minimum distances to obstacles and limits without defining what must be considered as an obstacle (our boards for example "but nothing allows us to say that our boards are obstacles (except common sense)" in reading the regulations the only obstacles referred to are their movement such as leaves and twigs).

For its part, article 19 which defines entry into prohibited ground (which seems to be confused with loss lines and other frames) specifies that the ball or the goal must have completely crossed the limit. Consequently, for someone who sticks strictly to the text, since the ball cannot entirely cross the plank or the tree, the wall ... it has the right to bounce on it ... Okay Yves

Other conditions are probably specified in texts of arbitration recommendations, but the simple licensee does not have access to them (I did not find them on the Federation's site or on this site and no one has cited one. whatever during this discussion despite my request).

To all

I think after this debate that without additions to the official rules dealing with "physical limits of open pitches" and more generally with play on "physically limited open pitches", it is not possible to deal with the problem that I have posed.

Indeed, the interpretation to the letter of the Official Regulations leads to admit that in the case of open land (unmarked boundaries, such as a large land enclosed by a low wall, walls - however high they may be, planks, etc.) the rebound on the physical limits of the open field is authorized and playing "everything is good" is unavoidable and this or that is physically this limit.
You will find below a draft (pre-writing) of articles which constitute a suggestion.

Sincerely everyone.

BTy

Any regulation whatsoever can provide that anything that is not written is authorized or that anything that is not written is prohibited or finally that all that is not written must fall under an agreement. based on "common sense" and, failing agreement must be decided by a referee, a judge and / or a modification of the Rules (no one is perfect).

_____________________________________________________________
Proposal of additional articles to the Official Rules:

Please note that these texts presuppose the modification of article 19 in order to distinguish the crossing of loss lines from that of entering prohibited land (see text).

In my opinion, the rules are missing articles that look like:

1- Play on undefined (unmarked) grounds
"On the grounds not delimited by loss lines, the 'free' ground is limited by total or partial natural or artificial borders which cannot be crossed * 1 by a rolling ball. These elements are obstacles and constitute as well as the areas which are 'behind (hidden)' from the goal kick-off point, prohibited grounds ".
"Pétanque can be practiced on an open ground while respecting the Official Regulations"
"When the" physical "limits of the ground are not continuous, continuity can be established by conventional limits materialized by a line or a string or constitute a simple convention provided that a cord can be stretched between predefined points at a time any of the game "

2- Forbidden land
2-1 "A prohibited ground is an area not accessible to play as precisely declared elsewhere. A boule or the goal is declared to have entered forbidden ground as soon as part of the element enters the forbidden area (note: a ball which rebounds on an obstacle declared in prohibited zone is considered as having entered prohibited ground and therefore becomes null (cf. Article 19-2 - new to be drafted)

2-2 The players or the organizer (club for example) declare which pitches are prohibited before starting a game or permanently by supplementing the internal regulations (clubs) to the official regulations.

Contribution du : 03/06/2021 9:36
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